Financial psychologist Dr. Brad Klontz and Youtuber Adrian Brambila join us to talk about money psychology, starting with a dark but revealing story about an experiment with dogs.
Scientists put dogs in electrified cages from which they couldn’t escape. Eventually, the dogs stopped trying to escape and just lay down, even when later moved to cages where escape was possible. This ‘learned helplessness’ mirrors how people can get trapped in negative beliefs about money when they grow up with financial hardship.
The conversation explores four main “money scripts” – deep beliefs about money that shape our behavior:
1. Money Avoidance: Thinking money is bad and rich people are evil
2. Money Worship: Believing more money will solve all problems
3. Money Status: Equating net worth with self-worth
4. Money Vigilance: Being careful and anxious about money (this one actually leads to the best financial outcomes)
Adrian shares his journey from making $27,000 at a call center in Iowa to becoming successful through YouTube, explaining how he had to find mentors online since no one around him understood his goals. He talks about feeling like a “lone wolf” with uncommon aspirations in a small town.
Dr. Brad reveals some surprising findings – like how meditation is linked to lower net worth (because being present-focused can work against future planning). His solution? “Automate before you meditate” – set up your savings and investments first.
They discuss how your friend group shapes your money views. The FIRE (Financial Independence Retire Early) movement, for example, creates status around having high savings rates instead of fancy cars. But they note some FIRE followers end up “FIRED” – Financially Independent Retire Early Depressed – because they never learned to enjoy spending money.
Dr. Brad shares a personal story about realizing in couples therapy that his fear of becoming poor was causing harmful stress, even though he was financially secure. This highlights a key theme: money scripts affect both rich and poor, and having more money doesn’t automatically fix unhealthy money beliefs.
All these insights come from Dr. Brad and Adrian’s research and personal experiences, which they’ve collected in their book “Start Thinking Rich.” The core message? Your money beliefs probably came from your childhood and culture, but you can change them once you understand them.
Timestamps:
Note: Timestamps will vary on individual listening devices based on dynamic advertising run times.
0:00 Intro to 3-part series on thinking rich
3:01 Psychology experiment reveals how learned helplessness affects money habits
8:12 Adrian’s journey from call center worker to YouTuber
14:16 How friend groups sabotage financial success
19:52 Brad’s struggle sharing book-writing aspirations
29:30 Being the lone ambitious person in a small town
40:24 Introduction to the concept of money scripts
48:20 Money script #1: avoiding wealth and villainizing rich people
56:52 American consumerism vs other cultures
1:02:40 Money script #2: believing money solves everything
1:09:20 Money script #3: equating net worth with self-worth
1:16:40 Money script #4: vigilance leads to better money outcomes
1:20:40 Why meditation correlates with lower wealth
1:22:48 When parents can’t enjoy their retirement money
1:29:44 Overcoming the fear of becoming poor again
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